Israel versus Palestine in 2012 (More struggle for peace)

I have rarely read such a pack of lies. Israel will endure forever, and all liars who hate her will be as dust before the wind of God.

It 's not a lie, it might be awful and uncomfortable to talk about, but I never post lies or anything that I know to be false.

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-12-24/news/mn-12209_1_adolf-hitler

Sustained by scholarship, peanut butter and a sense of mission, American Bryan Rigg is exploring an eerie and uncharted no man's land of Holocaust history.

Rigg said he has documented the Jewish ancestry of more than 1,200 of Hitler's soldiers, including two field marshals and 10 generals, "men commanding up to 100,000 troops." In about 20 cases, soldiers of Jewish heritage were awarded the Knight's Cross, Germany's highest military honor, he said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_%28group%29#Contact_with_Nazi_Germany

In 1940, Lehi proposed intervening in World War II on the side of Nazi Germany. It offered assistance in transferring the Jews of Europe to Palestine, in return for Germany's help in expelling Britain from Mandatory Palestine. Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik went to Beirut to meet German official Werner Otto von Hentig (who also was involved with the Haavara or Transfer Agreement, which had been transferring German Jews and their funds to Palestine since 1933). Lubenchik told von Hentig that Lehi had not yet revealed its full power and that they were capable of organizing a whole range of anti-British operations.

On the assumption that the destruction of Britain was the Germans' top objective, the organization offered cooperation in the following terms. Lehi would support sabotage and espionage operations in the Middle East and in eastern Europe anywhere where they had cells. Germany would recognize an independent Jewish state in Palestine/Eretz Israel, and all Jews leaving their homes in Europe, by their own will or because of government injunctions, could enter Palestine with no restriction of numbers. Stern also proposed to recruit some 40,000 Jews from occupied Europe to invade Palestine with German support to oust the British.

Hippocrates, if I thought you posted what you knew to be false, you and I would part ways immediately. I hate lying, and the quickest way to lose credibility with me is to be a liar.

Now, let's look at this:

First, it is no secret that there were men and women of Jewish descent who assisted in murdering 6 million of their co-descendants. Even blood is often betrayed when it's at the expense of saving one's own life and fortune. I read the article, and those men in California need to know no rest, and they are worse than criminals. I know, I wasn't there, but there is a line set in stone that we as sons of Jacob do not cross. Remember Massadah. 6 million Jews were murdered. 1200 is "so many"?

As for Wehrner Otto von Hettig and the Jews listed, you can easily find twice that many in Israel that hate Israel today. Their efforts, if I can believe the Wikipedia article, was to assist in the survival of the people of Israel, and a world that had done them no favors can just like it or lump it. This from the article you cited:

Lehi (Hebrew pronunciation: [ˈleχi]; Hebrew: לח"י – לוחמי חרות ישראל‎ Lohamei Herut Israel, "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel"), commonly referred to in English as the Stern Group or Stern Gang, was a militant Zionist group (italics and bold font mine) founded by Avraham ("Yair") Stern in the British Mandate of Palestine.^[2] Its avowed aim was forcibly evicting the British authorities from Palestine, allowing unrestricted immigration of Jews and the formation of a Jewish state.

And one more thing, Hippocrates. Wikipedia articles are written by citizens, and not given but a precursory examination for their veracity. I know references up the ying yang were listed, and perhaps this is better than most. Even so, I take it at face value.

From the FBI vault

http://vault.fbi.gov/Irgun%20Zvai%20Leumi/Irgun%20Zvai%20Leumi%20Part%208%20of%208/at_download/file

http://vault.fbi.gov/Irgun%20Zvai%20Leumi/Irgun%20Zvai%20Leumi%20Part%207%20of%208/at_download/file

Hi curt..happy New Year..

A file so nice you posted it twice?

Can you give it in a nutshell what you are trying to say by these heavily edited pages?

Happy New year Levi

Just a little sample of the info there is on the terrorist group known as Lehi from a source the citizens can't edit.

Thank you. I had no idea such a thing existed. It will take some time to work through it. However, I do not contest what Hippocrates posted. Lehi appears to have been first and foremost devoted to the saving of Jews and the repopulation of Ha Eretz, the Land. I wonder if Israel would have become a nation again had it not been for, at least in some small part, Lehi's efforts.

But one man's terrorist, another man's freedom fighter, eh, Curt? However it happened...and I suspect it was a million different players and happenings, Israel became a nation once again.

First, it is no secret that there were men and women of Jewish descent who assisted in murdering 6 million of their co-descendants. Even blood is often betrayed when it's at the expense of saving one's own life and fortune.

All too true.

1200 is "so many"?

I believe even 1 is too many. The worst are those who were field marshals and generals in the German Army. It was a dark chapter, where the Vatican made deals with the Nazis and the allied nations did nothing to help the Jews suffering documented persecution

Lehi appears to have been first and foremost devoted to the saving of Jews and the repopulation of Ha Eretz, the Land

Lehi, Irgun and Haganah may have had that intent but many of their actions have forever tainted their reputation. As a result of their actions and the failure to prosecute them has given rise to extremists within Zionist groups that persists today with far-right groups like Kach.

http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/16938/deaths-of-260-in-1940-ship-explosion-commemorated/

The web address above is about an attack on a ship carrying Jewish refugees escaping Nazi Occupied Europe. In order to prevent the British from deporting the refugees Haganah members planted bombs with the intent to cripple the ship. It went horribly wrong causing the sinking of the ship in 15 minutes killing 260 Jews. The road to hell is always paved in good intentions

Indeed it is, Hippocrates. We have the vantage point of history. We may look back at those days, and judge them, whereas those who lived them were following a course as best they saw fit, given the circumstances of the time wherein they lived. We need to be careful where we cast our allegiances based on their stories, for the fact that 1200 fought for the German Army has all the appearance of collusion, and as much as heroes like Oskar Schindler are remembered and honored, so should they be demonized, these traitors to the human race. And if a Jewish group sought to make a pact with Germany for the sake of moving Jews from Europe to Palestine, were they evil in their task, or perhaps men ahead of their time?

This is an extensive list of activities and goods allowed by Israel at the border with Gaza, January 2009 to June 2010.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2009/
Increased_humanitarian_aid_Gaza_after_IDF_operation_Jan_2009.htm

and of course, there's this:

http://idfspokesperson.com/2011/12/29/infographic-hamas-rearms-itself-with-weapons-in-order-to-hurt-civilian-population/

The truth is there to be found if anyone is willing to look for it.

Israel is required by Law to send supplies to Gaza. Under International Law Israel has this obligation as the Occupying Power. However, most of the goods sent to Gaza are donated by the International Community; Israel for her part only transports the goods.

4th Geneva Convention Art. 55. To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring the food and medical supplies of the population; it should, in particular, bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate.

Hippocrates, your 4th Geneva post assumes the status of Israel is as "occupier". Who occupies Gaza? Israel?

Who occupies Gaza? Israel?

Yes, by controlling Gaza's airspace, borders and coast. While the disengagement plan by Israel did end the Settlements and military occupation there still exists other mechanics apart of Israel's control over Gaza. Thus, the international community still regards Israel as an Occupier and holds them responsible for maintaining regular supply shipments to Gaza.

Egypt assists in this Occupation by regularly sealing their border with Gaza along the Sinai.

Hippocrates, the problem is the blockade and controlled access and regress is a defensive move by Israel. Now, if Gaza were a nation, then I would give some credit to the idea of "Gaza's coastline" and "Gaza's airspace" and "Gaza's borders". And as it is, it is a redefining of the word "occupation" to say that the blockade and controlling access is "occupation". As far as I know, the use of the word "occupation" is most normally employed by Arabs when speaking about some fictitious claim to the whole of Israel, even Jerusalem. A blockade is not occupation. It is a blockade. Occupation in the normal sense of the word would mean Israeli troops occupying the streets of Gaza. I note that in this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip ... there is no mention whatsoever of the term "occupation". As a matter of fact, I looked for anything that would indicate the UN or any reputable body considered the Israeli blockade and controlled access to be a formal occupation. Instead, all I found were articles that verified the blockade and controlled access were within Israel's jurisdiction, and the UN only monitored.

And I must respectfully disagree with you, in that there is much that the international community accuses Israel of doing, which is false. There are three causes of this: 1) They hate Israel, and it is a demonic, spiritual hatred. 2) Israel has superior capabilities to Gaza's. The world tends to favor the underdog. 3) Hamas and the Palestinians regularly do hoaxes and flat out lie through their teeth, manufacturing alleged abuses and aggression by Israel. Those who take a quick look at the news believe it heart and soul, without considering the truth. Take for instance the Muhammad al-Durrah hoax. And there are many more, although the al-Durrah hoax became iconic and increased the anger of Arabs towards Israel during the 2d intifadah.

I guarantee it, Hippocrates. If Israel did not have the blockade and controlled access to Gaza, the streets of Israel would be littered with Israeli dead. In the last two days, Hamas has out and out said that their goal is the complete destruction of Israel.

Hippocrates, it is disingenious to promote unsupportable opinion as fact. Often, I know, time prohibits a thoroughly structured evidence and links supporting what we know to be true. However, I call on you to provide proof specifically, that Israel's sea blockade and Israel's controlled access (eased in June 2011, along with Egypt's border) is indeed classified as an occuption, in the formal sense of the world. I did find this, at the Merriam-Webster website:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/occupation

Under the definition for the word "Occupation", there are these:

a : the possession, use, or settlement of land : occupancy
b : the holding of an office or position

3
a : the act or process of taking possession of a place or area : seizure
b : the holding and control of an area by a foreign military force
c : the military force occupying a country or the policies carried out by it

The question would be, do these apply to Israel. Well, therein is the disagreement, is it not? Apparently the UN doesn't refer to the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

And you put forth no more logical discussion than "no it isn't."

If Palestinians weren't such murderous dogs then Israel wouldn't have to be on the defensive constantly. Go ahead and discount the Merriam Webster definition of "occupy". Doesn't matter anyway. Can't reason with someone who's best rebuttal is "no it isn't".

Besides, what did you think of all the other stuff I posted? Pretty compelling huh? If you would look for truth instead of pursuing some agenda, you would understand the real issues.

Ah! A link! To your own column.

ramikay, yes, 1500 were killed in Operation Cast Lead. If Hamas didn't hide among civilians, storing munitions under apartment buildings, shoot missiles from school yards, and didn't blend in with the population during Cast Lead, the number would have probably been much lower.

But to call it genocide, even slow-motion genocide is irresponsible. Historical acts of genocide resemble nothing that goes on in Gaza. Further, those in Gaza are made up of Jordanians and Egyptians. To be called "genocide" there would have to be a whole lot more going on than merely chasing down terrorists in Gaza.

"Quick to use abusive language against Palestinians"? You do the same with Israel.

Here is a special report specially for you Levi777 to read (and hope you will get smarter in your responses at Newsvine)

In what can be considered a sad paradox of history, an analysis of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) actions during Operation Cast Lead in Gaza shows that the IDF violated several of the Nuremberg Principles, as well as the principles of the Geneva Conventions.

The Nuremberg Principles are a set of guidelines established after World War II to try Nazi Party members. They were established to determine what constitutes a war crime. The Geneva Conventions consist of four treaties and three additional protocols that establish the standards in international law for humanitarian treatment of the victims of war.

According to Nuremberg Principle I, "Any person who commits an act which constitutes a crime under international law is responsible therefore and liable to punishment." As detailed in the "Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict," also known as the "Goldstone Report," several crimes against unarmed civilians were committed by the IDF during Operation Cast Lead in Gaza.

The UN Mission investigated 11 incidents in which the IDF launched direct attacks against civilians with lethal outcome. The facts in all except one case, states the Mission, indicate no justifiable military objective. According to the report, "From the facts ascertained in all the above cases, the Mission finds that the conduct of the Israeli armed forces constitutes grave breaches of the Fourth Geneva Convention in respect of willful killings and willfully causing great suffering to protected persons and, as such, give rise to individual criminal responsibility. It also finds that the direct targeting and arbitrary killing of Palestinian civilians is a violation of the right to life."

Both Israeli government and military officials are responsible for the IDF actions during Operation Cast Lead. As Nuremberg Principle III states, "The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relive him from responsibility under international law."

It has been argued that those that were following orders are not guilty of crimes, and the responsibility for those crimes falls on the superior officers. However, Nuremberg Principle IV states that, "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."

Nuremberg Principle VI establishes three kinds of crimes punishable as crimes under international law: crimes against peace, war crimes and crimes against humanity. Among crimes against peace are those crimes "involving planning, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances."

Although the Government of Israel has the duty to defend its citizens, it is clear that Operation Cast Lead was a war of aggression against Gazans, out of any reasonable proportion and aimed at inflicting massive damage on Gaza's civilian population. According to a study carried out by B'Tselem, an Israeli human rights organization, 1,387 Gazans were killed during operation Cast Lead, a figure that includes 773 civilians and 330 combatants.

Among the war crimes established by Nuremberg Principle VI are the, "...plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity." The UN Mission investigated several incidents involving the destruction of industrial infrastructure, food production, water installations, sewage treatment plants and housing. Among the installations destroyed by the IDF was the el-Bader flour mill, the only operating flour mill in Gaza.

As stated in the UN report, "...the Mission finds that there has been a violation of the grave breaches provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Unlawful and wanton destruction which is not justified by military necessity amounts to a war crime. The Mission also finds that the destruction of the mill was carried out to deny sustenance to the civilian population, which is a violation of customary international law and may constitute a war crime. The strike on the flour mill furthermore constitutes a violation of the right to adequate food and means of subsistence."

The UN Mission also investigated four incidents in which the IDF coerced Palestinian civilian men at gunpoint to take part in house search operations. The men, blindfolded and handcuffed, were forced to enter houses suspected of having combatants, ahead of the Israeli soldiers. "From the facts available to it, the Mission is of the view that some of the actions of the Government of Israel might justify a competent court finding that crimes against humanity have been committed," states the report.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23732.htm

norsam, why would you put forth the Goldstone report as truth? Surely you must have known that it has been discredited, even by Goldstone himself. Why would you do that? Of course the rules for consideration were the Geneva Conventions and the Nuremburg Principles. I have no problem with that. But the whole report was faulty. You had to know that. Why would you offer it to support your agenda?

In September 2009, the UN Fact-Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, chaired by Justice Richard Goldstone, submitted its report (the Goldstone Report) to the Human Rights Council in Geneva. The report suggested that war crimes had been committed by all parties in the Gaza conflict (December 2008-January 2009). However, the report has been used only against Israel and has served as the basis for an extensive anti-Israeli political and legal campaign in the international arena.

On April 1, 2011, Justice Goldstone published an article of great consequence in the Washington Post ("Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and War Crimes") which describes how events since the report was issued have led him to change his analysis of crucial portions of the original report.

The most important sentence in Goldstone's article is the statement that, in hindsight, his report to the UN should not have reached the conclusions it did as far as Israel is concerned. Goldstone wrote, "If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document."

Key among these conclusions, based on reliable Israeli investigations, is that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy, thereby refuting one of the most heinous allegations contained in the original report. Goldstone continues, stating that, had they had this evidence then, "it probably would have influenced our findings about intentionality and war crimes" on the part of Israel.

Another crucial finding regards the number of Gazan civilians killed during the operation versus the number of combatants. The Goldstone report, relying on inflated and biased numbers from Palestinian and hostile NGO sources, had reported that most of those killed were civilians. However, Goldstone has now concluded that "Israeli military's numbers have turned out to be similar to those recently furnished by Hamas," i.e. the majority of casualties were indeed combatants.

Furthermore, the article reinforces Israel's casus belli for the operation, the implementation of its right of self-defense, noting that "Israel, like any sovereign nation, has the right and obligation to defend itself and its citizens against attacks from abroad and within."

Justice Goldstone goes on to praise Israel's conduct since the operation, noting that Israel has dedicated significant resources to investigate allegations of operational misconduct in Gaza and that Israel has implemented numerous policy changes to limit civilian casualties, including the adoption of new Israel Defense Forces procedures for protecting civilians in cases of urban warfare.

The article strongly contrasts the conduct of Israel with that of Hamas. Most significantly, Justice Goldstone finds that Hamas committed, and continues to commit "serious war crimes" against Israel in its rocket and mortar attacks on civilian targets in southern Israel. "That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying - its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets."

Even a terrorist organization such as Hamas must be held accountable for its war crimes. As Goldstone wrote, "the laws of armed conflict apply no less to non-state actors such as Hamas than they do to national armies." The article castigates Hamas, which, unlike Israel, has not conducted any investigations into its own actions, specifically the launching of rocket and mortar attacks against Israel. It notes that asking Hamas to investigate itself may have been "a mistaken enterprise".

While Goldstone laments a lack of Israeli cooperation in preparing the report, he does lend support to one of Israel's reasons for its actions, the UN's Human Rights Council's lack of evenhandedness, noting that the HRC's "history of bias against Israel cannot be doubted."

Goldstone admitted to the limited scope of the fact-finding mission, noting that it was not a judicial proceeding. He stated that "our mission was in no way a judicial or even quasi-judicial proceeding."

Unfortunately, the Goldstone Report has been treated as a judicial document and it has been exploited as a legal weapon with which to attack Israel. The time has come for this vicious report to be cancelled by the UN and thrown into the dustbin of history.

As Prime Minister Netanyahu stated, "Everything we said has proven to be true: Israel did not intentionally harm civilians, its institutions and investigative bodies are worthy, while Hamas intentionally fired upon innocent civilians and did not examine anything. The fact that Goldstone backtracked must lead to the shelving of this report once and for all."

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/About+the+Ministry/Behind+the+Headlines/Behind-The-Headlines-The-Goldstone-Report-Refuted–By-Goldstone-Himself-3-Apr-2011.htm

And this is 2 days old:

In a letter addressed to United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, Eshkol Regional Council chairman Chaim Jelin wrote, “The Israel Defense Forces, charged with protecting the residents of the State of Israel, are criticized and judged due to their being the military of a UN member state. In contrast, Hamas, the ‘neighborhood bully,’ is not subject to international laws, and feels free to use illegal weaponry against an innocent civilian population – without being judged or criticized by any international body.”

The phosphorous material was found on the remains of two mortar shells fired towards farmers working their fields Sunday morning. No one was wounded in the attacks. Jelin reminded Ban, “As you know, use of phosphorus as munitions directed at civilians is prohibited by the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (Geneva, October 1980).”

“The sole interest of the residents is to work their agricultural lands in peace. These lands provide them with their livelihood, their daily bread,” Jelin wrote, pointing out that all of the communities near Gaza have been under constant rocket fire and mortar shelling for more than 10 years.

“I request of you to receive this complaint as the internationally accepted method of protest, in our democratic and enlightened world, for the purpose of condemning use of illegal weapons and enforcing international rules even on our neighbors to the west.”

Sunday’s attacks were not the first time Israelis have been subject to illegal phosphorous explosives. They were found in Kassam rockets more than a year ago.

Source: www.israelnationanews.com

Oh, wait. I mean this truthfully. The UN has no teeth with Hamas, because the Palestinians are not a legal or formal nation. Neither are they signatuers to the Geneva Convention. The only ones that were declared a "non-state Political entity that represented the Palestinian peoples" was the PLO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine

Hamas was never in the picture, and has never been recognized as the legitimate representative of the Palestinian people. If that were the case, and Hamas becomes the ruling party of a new state of Palestine, expect the situation on the ground to change drastically in a moment, with Israel finally having the restraints removed, and entering Gaza with the express intent of overthrowing Hamas.

Well, there's two options. First, you have no answer, and therefore have chosen not to respond. I am not one who pursues agenda above truth, and so you cannot discuss with me when it comes to truth. Or...

Secondly, something has happened in your life and all is not well, for which I will offer a prayer for you, for God knows all, and on this, if you believe in Him, we can agree...He is merciful.

a : the act or process of taking possession of a place or area : seizure
b : the holding and control of an area by a foreign military force
c : the military force occupying a country or the policies carried out by it

All 3 apply to a degree.

Israel is in possession of Gazan coasts, airspace and most borders. Israel also maintains the right to raid or invade if they deem it necessary. Gaza is not yet a sovereign state.

Israel's foreign military force is indeed holding Gaza and controlling much that dictates their every day lives. The restriction on the freedom of movement and the transfer of good (import/export) has all but destroyed their economy and way of life; simultaneously the crumbs that Israel ships into Gaza makes them reliant on those goods.

Removing settlements and IDF troops did much to end the Occupations but it is not yet completely over, at least not until the blockade and border restrictions remain. Similarly, America occupies Cuba especially since we maintain a military base on their Island against their wishes.

hello Hippocrates...

My friend, there is one problem with your assessment. Gaza is not a country. As for the impoverishment, did you not read the query in one of my links above, concerning the exporting of goods and power to Syria through tunnels? If Gaza is in such poverty, how is it they are able to export?

Further, the reason Israel inspects goods inbound to Gaza is that groups such as Hezbollah and countries such as Iran and Syria, have expressed nothing but the desire to wipe Israel off the map. In addition, there are many deceived (well-meaning but deceived) people who would strike a blow for the poor Paletinian. Israel's inspection of all goods flowing into Gaza ensures that Hamas is not rearmed in such a manner, and not given more advanced weaponry with which to attack and kill Israeli civilians.

Speaking of which, did you catch the news about Hamas firing white phosphorus mortars into civilian areas? This was last Sunday.

I don't know about you, my friend, but were I in Israel's shoes, and I had the means? I'd inspect every box, bag, barrel heading into Gaza. Also, if they are so impoverished, how come the black marketeers smuggling goods in through Egypt make a very good living? And if Gaza is so poor, why do they not help each other, and allow such things? As I said, I doubt very much any member of Hamas is going hungry tonight.

By the way, what do you guys do? Tag team? Just kidding! Peace to you!

Gaza is a country/state, it just lacks UN membership or Israeli recognition.

Okay, which is it?

Gaza is not yet a sovereign state.

Gaza is a country/state, it just lacks UN membership or Israeli recognition.

And indeed if Israeli recognition is not required for Gaza to be a state, how is it that Hamas refuses to recognize the state of Israel, and it's right to exist?

Hippocrates, you blurr the lines of truth. I know you want Gaza to be a nation, a state. I desire a people at peace with a future and a hope...for all in that region, and if statehood is the path to that being a reality, then so be it. However, it is not yet. The people of Gaza voted into power a militant, radical, terrorist gang of crooks that has their legitimacy from teaching hate and the murder of innocents. And if indeed it is, then it is a rogue state, one that commits crimes against humanity and violence, and should indeed be overthrown.

That you make such a comment is most disingenious. What world is this that so resolutely makes truth bow to agenda?

Okay; those who choose agenda above truth have no response to serious questions and statements by those who choose truth above agenda.

Hippocrates of COS, I will consider in the next few days the question of removing you as a friend. I had hoped better of our discourse, yet the bulk of your contribution is emotional sentiments and unsupportable statements. I will be pleased to discourse with you in the future, should you so desire. Yet I call on you to search for truth apart from agenda, and let your agenda be to discover the truth, whatever it may be, and wherever it may be found.

I will not be returning to this seed. If you wish, Hippocrates of COS, you may contact me using the "contact the author" feature.

Okay, which is it?

Gaza is not yet a sovereign state.

Gaza is a country/state, it just lacks UN membership or Israeli recognition.

it is a state; it isn't sovereign, Seems odd you are having such difficulties with such the concept

indeed if Israeli recognition is not required for Gaza to be a state, how is it that Hamas refuses to recognize the state of Israel, and it's right to exist?

Did you bother to read that before typing it? Because it makes no sense. What does one have to do with the other?

The people of Gaza voted into power a militant, radical, terrorist gang of crooks that has their legitimacy from teaching hate and the murder of innocents.

The same could be said about Israel who has repeatedly elected terrorists to office. How many PM of Israel have been terrorists?

And if indeed it is, then it is a rogue state, one that commits crimes against humanity and violence, and should indeed be overthrown.

The same could be said of Israel

yet the bulk of your contribution is emotional sentiments and unsupportable statements.

I was thinking the same about your posts.

I know, ramikay. Israel is violating Palestinian rights by not turning all Israel over to the Arabs. (sarc)

Okay, I'll play. Show me credible information that Israel violates the rights of Palestinians, and if they are rights, they are, what, human rights? Can't be any other because they are not a nation, and have no constitution guaranteeing rights. This is evident by Hamas causing the death of civilians.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/new-evidence-from-idf-hamas-still-using-palestinian-civilians-as-human-shields/

And this was only 2 weeks ago.

ramikay, I know there really is no response, and truly, I do not want to be unkind to you. But please, (may I beg it of you?) find truth apart from agenda. Or if there must be agenda, let it be to discover the truth.

.